A Chat with Gary Lachman, Super Friend

An exciting day here at the Temple of Pei, one of our favorite authors Gary Lachman took time out of his super awesome life writing about cool stuff to answer some questions.

It seems like there is a lot of interest in Jung lately, for example the publishing of your new book and of the Red Book and major exhibitions at the Rubin Museum in NYC and the Hammer Museum in L.A. Why Jung and why now? Is there anything you can put your finger on or is it all, well, for the lack of a better term, synchronicity?
I had been wanting to write about Jung for some time. After writing books on Swedenborg, Rudolf Steiner, and Ouspensky, it made sense to take on Jung too, and originally the idea was to write a kind of ‘past master’ short introduction to his life and ideas. But while I was writing the book, Jung’s Red Book was published and so the idea seemed timely. It will also be the 50th anniversary of his death next year, and much of what has happened since then, at least on the ‘alternative’ scene, has his name stamped on it. So trying to pin down Jung’s importance seemed a good idea.

I have adored and championed the works of Wilhelm Reich since I was a teenager, but admittedly most of it just comes from an obsession with Hawkwind. Any connections between Jung and Reich beyond just being students of Freud? Reich is mentioned briefly in your book in an account of how people would get freaked out when having falling outs with Freud, but was there any ideas that they shared together?
I haven’t come across much mention of Reich in either Jung’s books or in books about him, aside from, as you say, material about his rupture with Freud. Jung, Reich, and also Victor Tausk and Herbert Silberer were rattled by their splits from the master; Tausk and Silberer even committed suicide over it. Jung and Reich went in the other direction, and survived their breakdowns successfully, and used the experience to create their own systems of psychology. I imagine Jung would have found Reich too materialistic – even Freud thought he took the sexual idea too far. Towards the end of his life Reich did begin to bring in more ‘occult’ ideas, especially about orgone energy, so in a general sense he moved more toward Jung’s side of the spectrum.

I was talking about this Q & A with a friend who happens to be  a Jung fan and an unapologetic entheogenthusiast. He was wondering if there any evidence that Jung may have messed around with any roots, psilocybin, etc. He mentioned seeing some footage of Jung in Africa coming out of a jungle holding a root with a big grin on his face. Anything to it?
I’ve seen the film you mean. No, there’s no evidence that Jung took psychedelics, either in Zurich or in the bush; he was fond of wine though, and in his student days was known as ‘the Barrel’. He’s smiling at the native children. Jung has some cautionary words about psychedelics in some of his last writings and interviews. He warned that they can release a flood of archetypal material that can easily overwhelm consciousness. He also believed that unconscious material needed to be assimilated into consciousness slowly, over time. The kind of free-for-all LSD and other hallucinogens trigger doesn’t allow for this. He would have shaken his head at people like McKenna etc, who nevertheless use quite a bit of Jung in their work.

I read the really fun account of your meeting with David Bowie where you step in on him as he talks about Colin Wilson being the head of a coven of witches. Did you have any other run ins with rocker/occultists? Any names you can name?
Well, I can say that Kirk Hammett of Metallica has spoken highly of my books. Some years ago he got in touch with me and took me out for dinner and drinks at a fancy hotel in Kensington, and we later met up again at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremony in 2006. I was there for Blondie and he was there to perform a Black Sabbath medley. Funny, the idea of a ‘heavy metal medley’ somehow seems counterintuitive. He’s a very nice guy, very intelligent.

Lately there has been an explosion in Templar/Freemason imagery in pop music, is this following a tradition or is just an example of massive egos going berserk?
Sadly, I am woefully ignorant about contemporary music, so have no idea what Lady Gaga and the others are about. But this sort of thing is perennially attractive to – what is it called today? it’s not rock anymore… – popular music. It provides a lot of imagery, a sense of the mysterious and the profound, and creates in their audience the illusion that they are part of some special, secret group. I mean, wasn’t Madonna into Cabala not too long ago? Occasionally you find a musician who is serious about it, but mostly its the sort of thing the Stones and Bowie did: pick up on it and use it for awhile until the next thing comes along. In any case, the Freemasons aren’t secret and yes, I am an illuminate.

While writing “(I’m Always Touched by Your) Presence, Dear”, was it a youthful aim of popularizing your interests via pop radio or was it that you were reading loads of this stuff and it filtered into the other aspects of your life? I had read Turn Off Your Mind and upon hearing that you had once been in Blondie I recall a moment of clarity where I thought “Oh HE must have written that song about theosophy, etc…”
‘Presence, Dear‘ is about the psychic contact my girlfriend and I had while I was on tour with Blondie. We discovered we had similar dreams, were calling each other at the same time, and other things like that. I had been reading stacks of books on magic, the Golden Dawn, Crowley, the paranormal etc. and the ideas were a part of my inner furniture. I became interested in all this stuff because Chris Stein, the Blondie guitarist, had a kitchy taste for black magic, voodoo, and so on, and had books and occult bric-a-brac all over the loft we lived in. I read Colin Wilson’s The Occult and, like his book The Outsider, it changed my life. I started taking a serious interest in it, and at one point Debbie thought I might be putting spells on them. But I use my powers only for good…

What’s next for Gary Lachman? I heard there is a HP Blavatsky bio coming, have you ever eaten at the White Dog in Philadelphia? I had brunch there last year, the Eggs Benedict did not betray my taste buds.
I never visited the White Dog in Philly, but I’ve heard about it. Strangely, there’s also the Stray Dog Cafe in St. Petersburg, where P.D. Ouspensky hung out before he met Gurdjieff… Yes, I’ve been asked to do a book on Madame Blavatsky, which I’m looking forward to. She was one of the most remarkable and influential people of the 19th century, and she was a woman. I have a book on Hermeticism scheduled to come out next year. I have some ideas for fiction, and hope I’ll have some time before starting on Madame Blavatsky to get a chapter or two started, just to see how it goes. I have quite a few lectures coming up. So I’ve no shortage of work. It keeps me young. That, and the monkey gland injections…

Gary Lachman’s new book Jung the Mystic: The Esoteric Dimensions of Carl Jung’s Life and Teachings is available now. We wrote about it a couple of weeks ago, you can see that here. The image at the top is by Witchbeam and is based on one of Mr. Lachman’s press photos.

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Update – Cool in-depth conversation with Mr. Lachman